Topic

    Dorsey
    Farm Ag Chemicals Not a REC - Phase II Anyway?
    Topic posted June 19, 2009 by DorseyMember, last edited February 8, 2012
    1032 Views, 29 Comments
    Title:
    Farm Ag Chemicals Not a REC - Phase II Anyway?
    Content:

    I'm doing a PI ESA on a corn field that will be developed for a new elementary school.  There are no buildings or other structures on the property. There have never been any non-agricultural uses of the property, and only farm and residential uses of adjoining properties.  Certainly there have been applications of pesticides and herbicides on the field, but there is no evidence of improper applications or spills.  I would not call the proper application of agricultural chemicals in accordance with their intended uses to be a REC.  However, with the intended future use as an elementary school, I feel like I should recommend soil sampling to provide a documented assessment of the levels of pesticides and herbicides.  Has anyone recommended Phase II sampling even if no RECs were identified?  Or, are there opinions that even the proper application of agricultural chemicals would be a REC in this case because of the future intended use of the property?

     

    Comment

    • R Scott Powell
      posted June 19, 2009 by R Scott PowellElite Contributor

      I have identified Ag Land as RECs and recommended Phase II on multiple occasions.  Try and identify the age and historical chemical application on the land.  I have identified some Ag land as not a REC because the farmer stated the land has been in his family for 100 years and they never used pesticides.  Is it exactly true... maybe not, but I had nothing to refute it (and it wasn't for a school).  Other times we positively identified DDT and other pesticides and herbicides that were used on the land.  We then recommended surficial sampling (6" to 2').  Most of those were for schools also.  If you do not have information on the historical application of chemicals, error on the side of caution.  Assuming it is an older farm, you have a plausable reason to suspect historical application of hazardous chemicals (banned pesticides and herbicides).  Especially since this is for a school... you don't want that zealot parent learning of the past use of DDT in the field Johny is eating dirt.  If your client resists remind them a few thousand upfront to prove nothing is wrong outweighs bad PR, angry parents, and/or loss of $100,000's in lawsuits if they are wrong. 

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      readude
      posted June 20, 2009 by readudeSuper Contributor

      Yes, soil sampling is definitely appropriate in this case.  I'm involved with a number of proposed school site acquisitions in California.  We recently completed a Phase I for a proposed school site in northern California that had a history of agricultural use.  Even though the Phase I turned up no RECs, the lead agency on this case required what's known as a Preliminary Endangerment Assessment (PEA), essentially a Phase II investigation.  Extensive onsite sampling was conducted for lead, PCBs, PAHs, TPH, methane, arsenic, and organochlorine pesticides (OCPs).  The only chemical that was detected at elevated levels was lead.  Excavation of the lead-impacted soil is now scheduled.  So, yes, I think it's better to spend the extra money and prove the site is safe especially when sensitive receptors are involved. 

      • Dorsey
        posted June 22, 2009 by DorseyMember

        Thanks for your input.  Sampling is definitely warranted and is being proposed to the client.  My dilemma has been whether the proper application of ag chemicals should be considered a REC.  The comment from Paradil2000 suggests he would call this a REC.  The comment from readude suggests he would not call it a REC.

        • McCarthy
          posted June 22, 2009 by McCarthyElite Contributor

          I think its a REC until proven otherwise, but I'm pretty conservative.  If you don't list it and it turns out to be a contaminated property, your firm will be the first in line in the lawsuit.  It doesn't matter how good your insurance or legal counsel are if you go broke trying to defend yourself.  Other EPs and firms are much less conservative, so I guess its up to you & your client.  The application may not be a REC, but maybe the chemical storage and mixing areas are?  If they didn't subcontract out the aerial spraying, then they must have stored, managed, filled tractor saddle-tanks, and mixed chemicals somewhere on-site.   I would call these areas RECs and recommend related sampling in these areas as a REC.  These are sticky decisions.

           

    • Plato
      posted June 22, 2009 by PlatoSuper Contributor

      It seems that you know that you should sample the soil, but you have already concluded that the former agricultural usage of the site is not a REC.  Why is it not a REC?

      Start with your finding: "there is no evidence of improper applications or spills."  You then conclude: "the proper application of agricultural chemicals in accordance with their intended uses is not a REC."

      What evidence of improper applications or spills would you expect to find?  Are they self-evident?  With that logic, is a UST a REC only when you have evidence of a leak?

      The problem is that you do not want to say that this agricultural usage is a REC, because then you would have to say that every Ag usage is REC (and that would upset some clients).

      Unless the agricultural user declares that they have full knowledge of the agricultural practices used on the land since first development, and they have never used pesticides, then I would call agricultural usage that included the application of pesticides, herbicides, or fertilizers a REC.  If you go down that road, I would get the agricultural user's declaration in writing.  However, I think a jury may still hold the consultant negligent if sampling was not recommended for a school and contaminants were found.

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      Scott
      posted June 22, 2009 by ScottSuper Contributor

      If they were proposing to build a bank or a gas station on the property, I probably would not call it an REC, and would not recommend sampling.  Knowing that there will be children at the site and playing in the dirt over the long-term, however, justifies a conservative approach.  Schools, day care centers, and even residential subdivisions are places where I try to leave nothing to chance.  I would recommend some soil sampling, at least screening for the common chlorinated compounds.  I think combining the potential for contamination and the potential future exposure is appropriate here. 

      I've never encountered significant lead/arsenic issues in a cornfield, but metal screens are so cheap you might as well include those as well.

      That said, I'll mention another variable - construction is likely to remove the top several inches of soil over the site.  Especially in an ag field, there's probably a high concentration of organic material in the topsoil, which engineers don't like to set things one.  I think it's likely that the shallow soils, where the contamination is most likely to be, won't be present on the site by the time the children arrive.

      • R Scott Powell
        posted June 23, 2009 by R Scott PowellElite Contributor

        The geotech engineers will want the "unsavory" soil removed from the building foot print and pavement areas.  However, the areas that will become the sports fields and playgrounds will likely not be altered, or may even receive the unwanted overburden.  These are the prime areas of interaction between your contaminants and sensitive receptors.  I have remediated a few schools just for those reasons.  Mr. Contractor tends not to be happy when he is told he will have to remove 2 feet of premium topsoil across 20 acres because the school does not want to take chances with liability risks... and it has to be landfilled for the same reason.  That was a happy day (more like couple weeks) for the landfill management company.  I even tried to tell the school they could sell the topsoil with limited uses implied, but they wanted zero risk. 

    • Matt Fox
      posted June 22, 2009 by Matt FoxElite Contributor

      I don't see anything wrong with calling it a REC given the circumstances.  If you're concerned about the double standard.....call the proper application of ag chemicals a de minimis condition for commercial developments and REC for residential/school development.  That should be consistent with ASTM.

    • smunger
      posted June 24, 2009 by smungerMember

      We do not necessarily consider past ag use an REC, but identify the  ag activities as a "Potential" REC  and recommend sampling, depending on the type of crop and the time frame of the ag use.  Many sites will exhibit detectable levels of organochlorine pesticides or arsenic, but at concentrations below applicable screening levels...this, in my interpretation of the standard, would not be a REC.

       

      Many municipalities in California require phase II for former ag sites as part of the CEQA process.

    • seand
      posted June 24, 2009 by seandSuper Contributor

      Three issues here I think. First, depending on the acreage, what is a scientifically defensible and statistically significant sampling protocol? The range could be enormous. Second, what is the intended future use and hence the complete exposure pathways (ie. can you engineer a barrier for exposure control? Third, what will you sample for and what will you do with the data (a question to always ask in a Phase II)? If you limit to pesitcides/herbicides/metals, how do you decide which ones to analyze (lab bill can be pretty big here on a 20+ acre site)? Whether you chose to call it a REC, hREC or potential REC; all of the above needs to be considered an discussed with the client as simply calling it a REC with no action plan is not helpful to an investor (but you raise a very complex and interesting question).

    • maverick
      posted June 24, 2009 by maverickMember

      The DTSC out here in California has a formal program related to agricultrual sites that are being converted to schools.  If the property has a proposed sensitive use and/or soils will be exported offsite, it would be best to follow this protocol.  I live in a community with a very rich agricultural history and residual pesticides do exist....sometimes above PRG levels.  I generally follow this guidance.

       

      The DTSC has information and statics they compiled from many different assessments.  Just one resource here....http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/Schools/upload/Ag-Guidance-Rev-3-August-7-2008-2.pdf

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      LSchnapf
      posted June 25, 2009 by LSchnapfElite Contributor

      Let's go back to the beginning. You are doing a phase 1 pursuant to ASTM. A REC is a term of art under ASTM E1527. It is evidence of a release that is not "de minimus". That definition, in turn, refers to conditions that if brought to the attention of a regulator would not be subject to an enforcement action.

      If farm products such as pesticides were properly applied in accordance with their labeling, then there is no CERCLA release. Of course, the enviro consultant may conclude that it cannot determine that the pesticide/farm product was properly applied and therefore cannot rule out a REC.

      That being said, the presence of pesticides can certainly be an environmental business risk. It would make sense to discuss with the client. Given the end use as a school and that there will likely be lots of exposed soil, it is really important to identify the client risk tolerance and to document your discussions with your client  

      • Dorsey
        posted June 26, 2009 by DorseyMember

        I appreciate the analysis by LSchnapf.  I also am of the opinion that proper application of agricultural chemicals in accordance with their intended uses is not a CERCLA release, and that is the basis for my opinion that it is not a REC.  However, the chemicals have been used and I agree with the commenters on this post that soil sampling is prudent due to the future use as a school.  My struggle has been with my expectation of the user's ability to understand and interpret the terminology of the conclusion.  The user of the report is a school district with seven-member board.  If no REC is stated, I believe at least some of the board will interpret that to mean that we are saying there is no contamination, so why do we need to spend the money to sample?  Therefore, even though the presence of the ag chemicals are not the result of a CERCLA release, it makes more sense to the user if it's called a REC and therefore leads to the soil sampling.  With all that being said, I do not expect the school district to dispute the recommendation for soil sampling.

         

        • smunger
          posted June 26, 2009 by smungerMember

          I agree that LSchnapf  that although not a true REC, the application of agrichemicals must be evaluated as a business risk.  As Dorsey states, it can be a struggle wrestling with the issue.  We generally use a separate category "potential RECs" in our reports to address those issues which may be a significant risk, but do not necessarily intially qualify as an REC.  Our clients have spent significant  $$$$ remediating compounds such as Dieldrin and Toxaphene, which evidence suggests were applied "in accordance with standard practices".  In my opinion, an environmental consultant would be remiss not to at least mention the potential issues with agrichemical applications.

          • LSchnapf
            posted June 26, 2009 by LSchnapfElite Contributor

            It is not necessary to flag everything as a REC. A condition that might not rise to the level of a REC for the reasons discussed previously could still be identified as an "environmental condition" or some other term.

            I have encountered historic pesticides at school sites and parents usually get very concerned about potential exposures. So it is in the best interest of the consultant to raise this issue in the report but not necessarily to the level of a REC. The purpose of identifying the historic pesticides would be to alert the user (i.e., the school district) of the issue and ensure that it requires its contractors to prepare a soil management plan that will properly manage the soilts to prevent exposure to the future students.

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      jessedphillips
      posted June 26, 2009 by jessedphillipsElite Contributor

      I can't find the term "potential REC" in the ASTM standard, so I don't use it in my reports.  A condition either is or isn't a REC and I'm not sure it's good practice to invent terms to cover your ass.  I'm also not sure that the intended use should have any bearing on whether you term it a REC.  The standard defines REC, but the definition is not dependent upon intended use.  I have problems with reviewers being too client specific in determining whether something is a REC or not.  Ideally, shouldn't that determination be independent of other factors? 

      In this case, I would probably say something to the effect that I consider it a de minimis condition because the DEQ does not consider residual contamination that is the result of proper application of pesticides or herbicides a regulatory issue (be sure your specific state confirms this). However; the presence of the potential residual contamination may be a concern because under certain conditions, it could become a REC, as in the case that it is stripped and stockpiled.  Current conditions do not constitute a REC, but future use may result in the creation of one.  I would then recommend a sampling plan and, subsequently, if contamination is identified, I would recommend that a hazardous materials handling plan be developed in conjunction with DEQ personnel.  The material could be used onsite in fill areas with a soil cap or something. 

      • LSchnapf
        posted June 26, 2009 by LSchnapfElite Contributor

        The approach I suggested allows the consultant to determine that the historic pesticide is not a REC as defined by ASTM but then allows it to protect itself and provide guidance to the client by flagging it as a "other environmental condition".

        Since end use is taken into account by states and the definition of "de minimis" refers to human health as well as enforcement, end use can be used to determine if there is a REC or if it is a de minimis condition. A spill that exceeds residential but not commercial standards could be considered a REC for residential deveIndeed but as a de minimis condition for commercial since the spill would not present a risk to human health and would not result in enforcement if brought to the attention of regulator-which is the definition of a de minimis condition. The prior poster acknowledged this by stating that future use could result in the condition being considered a REC.

        Of course, it could also be flagged as a business risk depending on the risk tolerance of the client.

         

    • Dorsey
      posted June 26, 2009 by DorseyMember

      "Potential REC" is not an ASTM term and I don't use it either.  The previous commenter stated "I'm also not sure that the intended use should have any bearing on whether you term it a REC." but then goes on to describe a situation where non-REC potential residual contamination could become a REC.  So if the future use of the subject property is known, it should be considered in the EP's opinion regarding the findings.  The problem comes if there is potential residual contamination that is not called a REC, but sometime in the future some development occurs that may change the classification, such as excavation and disposal.  We won't hear about the land use change and have an opportunity to revise our conclusion; we will only hear from the developer's lawyers when he has a big investigation/remediation bill.  Since we can't always predict the future with certainty, this leads to EP's calling things RECs when strictly in accordance with ASTM, they may not be.

       

    • MJohnson
      posted June 30, 2009 by MJohnsonMember

      It really depends on when the crops were cultivated.  DDT and other persistent pesticides were historically used on corn in some areas.  If the historical aerials and interviews indicate corn was grown on the Property in the 1960s then I would consider agrichemicals to be a REC.  However, if the records indicate that the Property was converted from grazing land to corn within the last 20 years, I would not identify agrichemicals as a REC.  

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      jessedphillips
      posted July 1, 2009 by jessedphillipsElite Contributor

      I think that it's very important to incorporate the perspective of the regulatory agency, because if they would not regulate it, the issue would be de minimis and not a REC. 

      I am working on a school where there are two issues: an area that was historically used to stockpile coal ash from the heating system and a former sewage lagoon (which was poentially used for disposal of who-knows-what) which was closed without being documented by the regulatory agency.  After speaking with representatives at the DEQ, I found that they do not consider either issue, as is, something that is subject to regulation; however, they noted that, if the soils were disturbed and the potential contaminants concentrated, that would be a REC.  Consequently, we are saying that both areas are currently de minimis conditions which, given the right circumstances, could be a REC.  Since the school is being demolished and another one is being built, and the problem areas are going to be where ball fields are, we'll probably recommend sampling for a baseline characterization and, if the area will be disturbed, we'll recommend the generation of a comprehensive soils management plan.

      Regarding MJohnson's post, I would confirm with DEQ/DEP/etc representatives about whether the issue would (theoretically) be the subject of regulation, and make conclusions as needed.

      • Scott
        posted July 1, 2009 by ScottSuper Contributor

        Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but I think this could be a dangerous position.  It dismisses a point that even DEQ says could become an REC.  Especially the case of the coal stockpile, my position would be that if it CAN be an RES, it IS an REC.  The sewage lagoon is a little less clear, I'd have to have more information, or evidence that it was used for disposal of hazardous substances, before calling it an REC. 

    • R Scott Powell
      posted July 3, 2009 by R Scott PowellElite Contributor

      I support Scott's statement.  Your inclination to base your identification of a REC on the opinion of the local regulatory agency takes you outside of the AAI/ASTM-05 objective/definition of a REC.  The agency should have no weight on a REC opinion.  Not to mention, unless you get the DEQ opinion in writing, on letterhead, as an official statement, it will not hold water when things go bad.  Coal ash has metals, hazardous substances, therefore a REC.  Are they at hazardous level?  Who knows, that's why you do to Phase II.  Be cautious with the de minimis condition statement also.  Read subsection 3.2.74 carefully, "... conditions that generally do not present a threat to human heath or the environment and that generally would not be subject of an enforcement action if brought to the attention of appropriate governmental agencies."  The term generally is the great equalizers with lawyers.  This statement leaves the de minimis definition open to a lot of different interpretations.  With your statement of "...potentially used for disposal of who-knows-what..." you are already questioning the issue.  It's a school.  If I were you I would be extremely conservative.  Again, I think Dorsey, Scott, LSchnapf, and myself are on the same track, future use plays into your opinions, REC, and de minimis identification.  It's good you'll be recommending a baseline and soil management plan, but instead of "…if the area will be disturbed…" I would just recommend they do it because you do not know where the future water, irrigation, and/or additions will go in 20 years.

    • jessedphillips
      posted July 6, 2009 by jessedphillipsElite Contributor

      After re-reading the standard, I'll cede the point; gladly (it's good to understand the standard correctly).  Here is my line of understanding:

        The definition states that recognized environmental conditions are "not intended to include de minimis conditions that generally do not present a threat to human health or the environment and that generally would not be the subject of an enforcement action if brought to the attention of appropriate governmental agencies.  Conditions determined to be de minimis are not RECs.” 

      So, even if an issue would not be the subject of enforcement action, if that issue presents a threat to human health or the environment, it is still a REC.  It appears that both conditions must be met.  If the standard said “do not present a threat to human health or the environment or that generally would not be the subject of an enforcement action,” then my previous stance may be justified; as it is, I must say that, since the coal ash storage and the sewage lagoon each constitute “the presence or likely presence of any hazardous substances or petroleum products on a property under conditions that indicate an existing release, a past release, or a material threat of a release of any hazardous substances or petroleum products into structures on the property or into the ground, groundwater, or surface water of the property,” each issue constitutes a REC. 

      Better safe than sorry.  Sometimes it’s a fine line between alarmism and rationality.  Hopefully, the client will understand the difference. 

       Thanks for your advice!