
EDR Historical Dry Cleaners database
Topic posted September 16, 2009 by
ajohnson
, last edited January 19, 2012
3091 Views, 59 Comments
Title:
EDR Historical Dry Cleaners database
Content:
Can anyone help me out with the following questions for the EDR Historical Dry Cleaners database?
When was it created?
How many records are contained?
Thanks!
Comment
Seems like it showed up 4 or 5 years ago. Not sure, but I think what they did was extract names of business containing certain key words from some kind of national city directory database. No idea how many records it contains. Kind of irrelavent since so many of them aren't even dry cleaners. Maybe someone from EDR will give you better answer.
Matt
Be the first to rate this
|
Sign in to rate this
Yes, you are correct, EDR abstracted information on historical Gas Stations and Dry Cleaners databases from historical business directories by analyzing keywords and data categories with various historical business directories. The data provides extremely valuable insight into historical property use on and around a property, specifically in an environment where Vapor Intrusion is a significant risk. This information is used in a variety of EDR reports. The majority of the listings will be for the key city in each county where the business directory was focused, with some additional listings for surrounding cities.
Tom
Regional Vice President EDR
Be the first to rate this
|
Sign in to rate this
We check the certificates of occupancy. Frequently, they will have a different code for a drop-off drycleaner than for one that used chemicals on-site.
Average Rating:



3 ratings
|
Sign in to rate this
I think the answer is that the user has to be smarter than the database. Based on my experience, I'd guesstimate that about 10-20% of the listings in the Historical Auto/Drycleaner databases are false positives. But that doesn't mean the data isn't useful.
Not sure I understand your point about the Shell Oil example. So you don't think City Directories are a valuable historical tool because they might flag properties as a concern that aren't really a concern? Again, the EP has to have enough experience and common sense to filter those out.
Matt
Average Rating:



2 ratings
|
Sign in to rate this
I concur with Matt. Yes, data sources are flawed. I have not seen anyone on this forum argue otherwise. It does not diminish the importance of reviewing historical sources for past property use and I remain perplexed in my attempt to follow the opposite course of logic or lack thereof presented. EPs are certainly competent to sift through the data and find what is valid and applicable. They do it everyday.
Average Rating:



1 rating
|
Sign in to rate this
+1. No database should be the be-all or end-all of a decision. If it shows up as a drycleaner, then do some more research.
Average Rating:



1 rating
|
Sign in to rate this
Good comment Matt. Yes, the data needs to be analyzed. For example, in the past I've seen historic dry cleaner listings for residential tenants who happen to have the last name of Stoddard.
Be the first to rate this
|
Sign in to rate this
The EDR dry cleaner directory is convenient one-stop shopping to determine if dry cleaner was listed as having been located at the site. Obviously, the information does not indicate if it was a drop-off or if on-site cleaning operations were conducted, or even if PERC or some other chemical was used. And with the average dry cleaner operating for about three years before changing management, it is possible that the database may have missed a couple of operators. Alternatively, the consultant go do its own research at the library or other local sources of information if there is sufficient time.
Be the first to rate this
|
Sign in to rate this
that's why we hire EPs to do the undercover work. we leave it up to them how best to ferret out the info. I have heard from many EPs that they find it helpful... but again it is just a starting point for their historical research.
Once a dry cleaner is identified, my working assumption is that it should be flagged as a REC in the absence of objective information explaining why it should not be so identified.
Be the first to rate this
|
Sign in to rate this
Lets say you do a Phase 1 on a shopping center built in 1975. You find city directories dating back to 1985 at the library. Nothing significant shows up in building records. The EDR Drycleaner database shows a listing for your property with "John's Dry Cleaner" in 1975 and 1980. I guess you would just ignore that information because you think it's trivial and there are sometimes errors in that database?
I'm not sure if you really believe the things you are saying, or if you just get a kick out of being a troll and hiding behind your anonymity. You are making a bit of a fool out of yourself.
Average Rating:



3 ratings
|
Sign in to rate this
Matt is right..and if there was a hit for the "Clean" Air Coalition which housed an office in the shopping center...well I guess that might just cause severe punishment to some.
Average Rating:



2 ratings
|
Sign in to rate this
Wouldn't you be one of the self-annointed experts? If not, who annointed you?
Be the first to rate this
|
Sign in to rate this
Based on my 25 years experience and studies showing high preponderance of releases from historic dry cleaners, I will require sampling if a dry cleaner operated at a site prior to 2000 unless there is compelling evidence to the contrary.
as for your other comments, they simply reflect your lack of judgment.....
Be the first to rate this
|
Sign in to rate this
Hey Punisher, there are other EPs here with 20 years of Phase I experience that have enountered dry cleaning leaksites. Due to the nature of the contaminant, they can be dramatically more expensive to clean-up than petroleum leaksites, and in many cases there are no reimbursement pools available. Some of us find the database a helpful preliminary screening tool. If your not satisfied with EDRs explanation, hire another d-base company that better suits your self-serving needs. Some EPs find it better to be aware of potential issues and then explain them away if they're false positives. Seems better than to miss significant "material threats" to a site. The Phase I is designed to protect the buyer and you're unwillingness to consider a Phase II because it costs a few grand is not protective of the financial and liability risks of the borrower, it just gives you a false sense of your own decision making abilities. Do you really have a crystal ball that allows you to decide whether a leak has occurred? Can I borrow it.
Average Rating:



2 ratings
|
Sign in to rate this
So Punisher.....if you found a city directory listing for a dry cleaner in a shopping center between 1970 and 1985 and no other historical sources to confirm or deny the presence of a dry cleaning plant, you would not recommend further investigation? Instead your report would conclude that this was not a REC since the city dirctories have inherent flaws. I don't believe you....because if you did come to that conclusion, you'd have been laughed out of business long ago.
Matt
Average Rating:



1 rating
|
Sign in to rate this
"..., but I helped write the original doc, and I know the intent."
Per your comments on the BER discussion thread.
I find it hard to believe anyone as obnoxious as you've proven to be in your comments ever played a role in developing national guidelines. That would suggest that you were actually able to sit in a room and listen to the opinions of other professionals without making childish attacks on everyone with a different opinion. It must have been around the same time you invented the internet? Maybe you should tell everyone here who you are so that we can all be amazed.
Average Rating:



1 rating
|
Sign in to rate this
on the narrow issue of the Transaction Screen, I will agree with the Punisher (whoever he or she may be) that this helped create a race-to-the bottom.
The Punisher might like to know that I am speaking at Brownfields 2009 on the need to re-visit AAI to (1) tighten the definition of EP, (2) require sampling of RECs as part of AAI and (3) amending CERCLA disclosure obligations to require reporting of historical contamination which is not currently required due to the RQ threshold
Average Rating:



1 rating
|
Sign in to rate this
I think there is some merit in Phase I EPs and their companies not being able to complete the Phase II due to inherent conflict of interest. There are similar rules in the asbestos industry. I don't have a problem with this separation because I make my recommendations based on professional experience, not on some potential to do repeat Phase I's or subsequent Phase II work.
Your world of evil and corrupt consultants trying to rip off the poor big banks sounds like a sad place to live and is contrary to the real world where the short-sighted bankers put more interest in closing the deal than doing reasonable due diligence while beating up the bottom feeding consultants so they couldn't charge a fair fee and never have the courage to point out RECs at risk of losing their contracts.
Average Rating:



1 rating
|
Sign in to rate this