Comments

Comments

  • King of Snark

    Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos suggests that you should build a business strategy around the things you know are stable in time — like that customers will always prefer lower prices — and then invest heavily in ensuring you are providing those things and improving your delivery of them all the time.  

    It’s impossible to imagine a future 10 years from now where a customer comes up and says, ‘Jeff I love Amazon; I just wish the prices were a little higher,’ [or] ‘I love Amazon; I just wish you’d deliver a little more slowly.’ Impossible. 


     

  • LagavulinNeat

    $3000. Long Island/NYC area.

  • King of Snark

    You better study long on hard on this one bro or you may get an up close and personal look at litigation when they go to develop that lot and discover  ...... gold. There is plenty more to consider than just the EDR Hist Clean listing. 

  • Here2Learn

    I will ask the other tenants if they knew if the dry cleaners used solvents onsite. However, even if they say yes, is that enough to conclude a REC. The site is just an EDR US Historic Cleaners which does not mean there were spills or releases. 

    What's weird to me is my site is located topographically higher than the shopping center which means they must have  pumped it to the north side of my site and let it drain to the south (toward the shopping center)... I assume. 

  • JG

    It depends on the uses associated with the leachfield. You want to look at what might have been dumped down the drain.
     

    The cleaners is pretty recent.  You should be able to find out something about it. Were any of the other existing tenants around during that time?

  • MaxEng

    Perc was commonly used as early as 1930, and I found traces of perc in soil vapor (de minimis concentrations, though) about 150 feet away from a dry cleaner that operated in the late 1920s for only about five years.  It might depend on local knowledge - were cleaners in the area early-adopters of perc, or were they not?  Gotta admit, though, I read the OP's question to mean the dry cleaner had been in place since 1940, not that it stopped operating before 1940.

  • maverick

    Recently completed a job on a commercial building in a dense/downtown commercial district.  Our building was clean in terms of prior uses, but the adjacent (attached) building had been a dry cleaner continuously for the last 50+ years. Client was advised of this REC and testing inside our building was done along the common wall shared between the two buildings. Interestingly enough no elevated vapor concentrations were found. However, indoor air samples were also obtained and were found to be high for VOCs (HVAC system was suspected to be sucking in cleaner emissions).  

  • TESKCMO

    The soil in the area is urban land.  Currently the target site is surrounded by paved parking lots, streets, and warehouses.

  • JG

    Even pre-1940?  Chlorinated solvents weren't prevalent yet.

  • MaxEng

    Based on my personal experience, a former dry cleaning plant within 50 feet is, without question, both a VEC and a REC.  Gas station 50 feet away and not adjoining, probably not.

  • Matt Fox

    I'm not a big fan of the term "clean Phase I".  Lack of RECs does not mean the site is clean, that just means there are no RECs. People tend to assume that because a Phase I missed something that the Phase I was deficient.

  • maverick

    We do a ton of work for mining companies and I've done a lot of due diligence on aggregate mines throughout California.  All sorts of things will and can be buried in the old quarry pits.  In California, things are pretty well regulated (at least currently) but in other states, not so much.  If possible, try and interview the old quarry operators to get some history and try and obtain the reclamation plans and mining plans...they may have some old history.  Also, the quarries are commonly very remote and require their own fuel (underground or aboveground tanks).  Other things to be aware of might be wash out pits if there was a concrete batch plant associated with it, and if there was an asphalt plant, watch out buried asphalt oil tank (tank railcars, etc) for truck spray areas....they commonly used diesel fuel/oils to lubricate the asphalt trucks so the material slides in and out easily. 

    We just recently finished a big cleanup on an old dump/fill area included not only inert materials such as cement wash out area and rubble, but trash, woody materials, etc., It was a huge mess and super expensive for our client to deal with. Another consultant had done the Phase I (it was clean) and I reviewed aerial photos of the area...their was no indication from the aerials of this dump/fill area from the aerials.  Basically, CYA as anything is possible.   

  • Michigan Mark

    There is not enough information to make a definite statement about whether a VEC exists.  You need a line of evidence to rule out the VEC.  As noted in E2600, you have to make a decision and it is suggested you use terminology such as a VEC exists, a VEC likely exists, a VEC cannot be ruled out, or a VEC does not exist.  Based on the limited amount of data you provided, you might use terminology such as a VEC cannot be ruled out.

    There is information you can attempt to gather based on your indication of the historical gas station location.  Where are the subsurface utility lines (any between your site and the gas station)?  Are there any other barriers to vapor migration?  What is the vadose zone soil type (e.g. clay rich, a soil type that tends to limit the potential for vapor migration)?

  • JG

    This is a good exercise in the possible vs. likely determination.  Is it possible that something was dumped in the gravel pit? Sure.  Is it likely (and not de minimis)? You have to make that determination based on the totality of the available information and your experience.  If it's not likely then it's not a REC.

  • Matt Fox

    I can't tell you if it's a REC or not, you'll have to make that call on your own, but doesn't sound like any obvious red flags, other than it was a gravel pit.